<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/"
	>

<channel>
	<title>Before &#38; After &#124; Design Talk &#187; Logo design</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/category/logo-design/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk</link>
	<description>Before &#38; After&#039;s creative director John McWade&#039;s conversations with subscribers</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 01:56:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<language>en</language>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0</generator>
		<item>
		<title>Too many messages</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/07/too-many-messages/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/07/too-many-messages/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=4520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A car dealer approached us recently asking for help designing an image to commemorate its 100th anniversary next year. This dealer had started selling cars out of the local general store in 1911 and has been at it ever since. That&#8217;s a long time! But they were stuck. What they&#8217;d hoped for was an image [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A car dealer approached us recently asking for help designing an image to commemorate its 100th anniversary next year. This dealer had started selling cars out of the local general store in 1911 and has been at it ever since. That&#8217;s a long time!</p>
<p>But they were stuck.</p>
<p>What they&#8217;d hoped for was an image that would convey three character attributes of their company &#8212; integrity, resilience and commitment. These are wonderful qualities. Problem is, any one of them is almost impossible to convey in a graphic (quick! what does resilience look like?), not to mention all three.</p>
<p>Not only that, but they&#8217;re inward-facing; that is, they have meaning not to the customer but only to the company.</p>
<p>My recommendation: Turn and face the customer. One hundred years in business, <em>all by itself</em>, speaks plenty about values and vision. The company has stood the test of time and all that that implies &#8212; and the customer will get it.</p>
<p>I cobbled together a rough and said how about if we picture it this way:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.typography.com/fonts/font_inside.php?productLineID=100008&amp;wipID=22" target="_blank"><img class="size-full wp-image-4936 alignnone" title="100Years" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/100Years.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="240" /></a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a Model T wheel and a modern car wheel, a compact image that spans a century of automobiles. Use it as a badge and stick it on everything all year &#8212; Web site, stationery, print advertising, signs, posters, invoices, all of it, wherever the company name or logo also appears.</p>
<p><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-4939" title="CarDealer100d" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/CarDealer100d.jpg" alt="" width="227" height="203" />It of course needs refinement, and whether they use the image or not remains to be seen, but I pass along the idea because I&#8217;m sure there are many old-new topics that can be depicted in a similar way.</p>
<p>Think about yours.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/07/too-many-messages/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>76</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Famous logo links past and present?</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/06/famous-logo-links-past-and-present/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/06/famous-logo-links-past-and-present/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=4376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you recognize this typeface? Catull is a calligraphic-style font created for Berthold in 1982 by type designer Gustav Jaeger. Its faintly curved strokes and flat-nib serifs and terminals are natural characteristics of handwriting and convey a sense of age, warmth and intimacy &#8212; the opposite of cool, modern and digital. Which is something that designer [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4432" title="ExLibrisK" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ExLibrisK.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="189" /></p>
<p>Do you recognize this typeface?</p>
<p><a href="http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/berthold/catull-pro/regular/" target="_blank">Catull</a> is a calligraphic-style font created for Berthold in 1982 by type designer Gustav Jaeger. Its faintly curved strokes and flat-nib serifs and terminals are natural characteristics of handwriting and convey a sense of age, warmth and intimacy &#8212; the opposite of cool, modern and digital.</p>
<p>Which is something that designer <a href="http://www.kedardesigns.com/" target="_blank">Ruth Kedar</a> had in mind in 1999 when she chose Catull for her famous logo . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4638" title="Google logo google.com" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/GoogleLogoColorLg3D.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="120" /></p>
<p><a href="http://www.wired.com/techbiz/startups/multimedia/2008/02/gallery_google_logos?slide=1&amp;slideView=1" target="_blank">Said she</a>, &#8220;Catull borrows elements from traditional writing instruments such as the quill and chisel, with a modern twist. Search, by nature, is an activity that requires we look into the past. Therefore, Catull&#8217;s historical ties seemed appropriate, as did the bridging between the old analog world and the new emerging digital era.</p>
<p>&#8220;It must be remembered,&#8221; she told <a href="http://www.haaretz.com/news/the-israeli-woman-behind-the-google-logo-1.256477" target="_blank">Haaretz.com</a>, &#8220;that at the time, many people were afraid to use the Internet, and it was important to broadcast something user-friendly both on the home page and in the logo. Something simple, that you didn&#8217;t need to be scared of, something catchy and full of life.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmmmm.</p>
<p>I see the reasoning, but . . .</p>
<p>Had you made Google&#8217;s connection between new and old? I hadn&#8217;t. Not even subliminally. The cues are too subtle. A word that looks like goggle and sounds like oogle and feels like giggle in colors like kindergarten isn&#8217;t going to connect historically unless the connection is obvious, more like this . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4466" title="GoogleFette" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/GoogleFette.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="203" /></p>
<p>I exaggerate, but only a little.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s something to keep in mind. This is a case where the appeal is in the word itself. G-o-o-g-l-e. When you find yourself here, generally speaking you don&#8217;t want to add a visual trick. And understatement, as in this case, rarely works either.</p>
<p>I think Google would be better off with a typeface that looks, well, googly.</p>
<p>For more on the development of Google&#8217;s logo, check out <a href="http://www.wired.com/techbiz/startups/multimedia/2008/02/gallery_google_logos?slide=1&amp;slideView=1" target="_blank">Wired</a> magazine.</p>
<p>For more on how to design a text-only logotype, check out <a title="0660 | How to set a text-only logotype" href="http://www.bamagazine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=D1460660" target="_blank">our article</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bamagazine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=D1460660" target="_blank"><img class="floatleft" title="0660 | How to set a text-only logotype" src="http://www.bamagazine.com/v/vspfiles/photos/D1460660-0.jpg" alt="" /> </a></p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/06/famous-logo-links-past-and-present/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>23</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>How to quiz your client</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/06/how-to-quiz-your-client/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/06/how-to-quiz-your-client/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 19:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=4083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Every design for a client starts with a creative brief . . . The process of making the brief can sometimes be shortcut but usually not. For time's sake, I usually try. It rarely works. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4215" title="ArsVivaGroupPhoto" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ArsVivaGroupPhoto.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="198" /></p>
<p>Dear readers: Every design for a client starts with a creative brief. You can read about that <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/03/so-how-do-you-design-for-a-client/" target="_blank">here</a>, but do it later; the short version is something like this:</p>
<p>Rule #1: Listen.<br />
Rule #2: Understand and embrace the client&#8217;s vision.<br />
Rule #3: Write it down. You and the client sign it.<br />
Rule #4: Design that. Don&#8217;t design something else.</p>
<p>The process of making the brief can sometimes be shortcut but usually not. For time&#8217;s sake, I usually try. It rarely works.</p>
<p>The following will be an audience-participation project. It begins as a conversation between Gayle Heatherington &#8212; executive director of the Ars Viva Symphony Orchestra &#8212; and me. I publish it because I want you to hear the question-answer process that leads up to the creative brief. Keep in mind that we&#8217;re corresponding long distance &#8212; she in Illinois and I in California &#8212; which requires questions that an on-site meeting may not. At the end, I&#8217;ll ask for volunteers to work on a design solution.</p>
<p>Gayle begins: I <em>love</em> your discussions of logos and wonder if you (and your readers) would be interested in commenting on ours. Our name is actually our logo. It is made up of two fonts: Linotext Std and Van Dijk Std.</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4087" title="ArsVivaBeforeSm" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ArsVivaBeforeSm.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="144" /></p>
<p>The name of the orchestra is <em>Ars Viva,</em> which means &#8220;living art.&#8221; Our concerts often juxtapose beloved masterworks with less-familiar repertoire. Hence, the current logo has <em>Ars</em> in an old-style font and <em>Viva</em> in a modern, forward-looking font with an exclamation mark. This is to represent the old and the new. Trite?</p>
<p>I would be interested in investigating whether a change would helps us brand our image better. Also, the name itself is a challenge for most people, and they don&#8217;t know what it means. I have wondered if an actual logo in addition to the name might help make us more easily recognizable.</p>
<p>The orchestra was founded by our music director (my husband!) 15 years ago. One of its distinctives is that he gives friendly, informative remarks to the audience from the stage that provide context for the music and establish a welcoming atmosphere at each concert. Also, the orchestra is comprised of many of the finest musicians in Chicago, including members of the world-renowned Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Therefore, the quality is extremely high, yet not &#8220;stuffy&#8221; and unapproachable.</p>
<p>In case you wish to take this project on, you can find more information about the orchestra at our web site: <a href="http://arsviva.org" target="_blank"> www.arsviva.org.</a> [Readers: While you're there, don't miss <a href="http://arsviva.org/something_important.html" target="_blank">this essay</a>.]</p>
<p><a href="http://arsviva.org" target="_blank"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4099" title="ArsVivaHomePage" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ArsVivaHomePage1.jpg" alt="" width="436" height="388" /></a></p>
<p>I would appreciate any comments you may have about our current logo and any thoughts you and your readers may have about alternative logos.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Hi Gayle,</p>
<p>Thank you for your great story.</p>
<p>Questions:</p>
<p>When you say your name is a &#8220;challenge for most people,&#8221; is the challenge . . .</p>
<p>1) that they have trouble pronouncing it?<br />
2) that they don&#8217;t know what it means?<br />
3) that they can&#8217;t position it in their minds? (i.e.: I understand what the Chicago Symphony Orchestra is, but what&#8217;s the Ars Viva Symphony Orchestra? Public? Private? Big? Small? Professional? Amateur? And so on.)<br />
4) Other?</p>
<p>When you wonder if a change &#8220;would help us  brand our image better,&#8221; it sounds like you&#8217;re referring to #3 above.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img class="size-full wp-image-4340 aligncenter" title="CSOLogoColor" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/CSOLogoColor2.jpg" alt="" width="76" height="171" /></p>
<p>When you wonder about an &#8220;actual logo,&#8221; I presume you have in mind a mark like the Chicago Symphony Orchestra&#8217;s, in addition to your name. Yes? No?</p>
<p>Is Ars Viva something like the Boston Pops?</p>
<p>John</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Dear John,</p>
<p>Here are the answers to your questions.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">When you say your name is a &#8220;challenge for most people,&#8221; is the challenge</span></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">1) that they have trouble pronouncing it?</span></p>
<p>Yes, a lot of people don&#8217;t realize it is two Latin words, and they think the first word is simply three letters, and they call us A-R-S Viva, which, of course, means nothing.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">2) that they don&#8217;t know what it means?</span></p>
<p>Yes, we have often been asked by patrons what the name means. This gives us a chance to explain the &#8220;old and new&#8221; music concept, but only to those who ask!</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">3) that they can&#8217;t position it in their minds? (i.e., I understand what the Chicago Symphony Orchestra is, but what&#8217;s the Ars Viva Symphony Orchestra? Public? Private? Big? Small? Professional? Amateur? And so on.)</span></p>
<p>Correct here, too.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">When you wonder if a change &#8220;would help us brand our image better,&#8221; it sounds like you&#8217;re referring to number 3 above.</span></p>
<p>Really all three. But number 3 is much more challenging. We don&#8217;t have a location to call home: Chicago Symphony, Elgin Symphony, Rockford Symphony, St. Paul Chamber Orchestra, etc. We perform in Skokie, Illinois, but we are a regional orchestra, and Skokie is not really our home town. Skokie already has an amateur orchestra (Skokie Valley Symphony), and we don&#8217;t want to be confused with them.</p>
<p>An organization like <a href="http://www.baroque.org/index.shtml" target="_blank">Music of the Baroque</a> has a name that clearly explains what you can expect when you attend one of their concerts, and it was a very good name for building this organization. But we don&#8217;t perform just one style of music &#8212; in fact, quite the opposite!</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">When you wonder about an &#8220;actual logo,&#8221; I presume you have in mind a mark like the Chicago Symphony Orchestra&#8217;s, in addition to your name. Yes? No?</span></p>
<p>Yes. Maybe if the name is confusing, at least people can get used to seeing the logo and recognize us that way.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Is Ars Viva something like the Boston Pops?</span></p>
<p>Well, if you mean performing pops repertoire, then no. In the sense that we have a lot of the same players as the CSO, then yes. But the Boston Pops is run by the Boston Symphony, and we are a completely independent organization. We are more like the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra. We are a chamber-size orchestra (though we have not called ourselves that), and we perform in a smaller space than the CSO &#8212; more intimate &#8212; and the rapport with the audience when my husband talks to them is relaxed, entertaining and informative. But the music is serious, not pops. We offer people in the suburbs the opportunity to hear a world-class orchestra close to home. The commute to Chicago is daunting for many! Even if they are subscribers to the CSO, they can see many of the same players on our stage and hear interesting music that they don&#8217;t often play downtown.</p>
<p>Gayle</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Hi Gayle,</p>
<p>Your current logo is built on an interesting typographic concept [old and new], but its rendering is rough. Easiest place to start is to polish your idea to see if better typography will help. Attached are three possibilities, all similar. The colors are derived from your Web site. It may take some time for my fantasy to catch up to your reality. Just give me a reaction.</p>
<p><img class="size-full wp-image-4166 alignnone" title="ArsVivaAfter1" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ArsVivaAfter12.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="220" /></p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4180" title="ArsVivaAfter3b" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ArsVivaAfter3b.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="220" /><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4188" title="ArsVivaAfter4b" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ArsVivaAfter4b3.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="230" /></p>
<p>John</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Dear John,</p>
<p>Of the three examples, I like #3 best.  #1 &#8212; the Viva is too hard to read. It could look like <em>Ars Uiua</em>. #2 is okay but doesn&#8217;t jump out at me. I like the Viva font in #3.</p>
<p>Reduced to the size they would be on a letterhead, return envelope, small print ad, etc., I suspect that there would be a real problem reading Alan&#8217;s name. Also, the very thin lines of the typeface for the &#8220;Ars&#8221; would disappear in printing. I often print our logo reversed on a black background, and the very thin lines would be swallowed up with black ink.</p>
<p>Because Alan is the founding music director of our orchestra, his name should be more prominent. He is actually part of our image. He is very well known in the Chicago area, and so his name actually is pretty important. His name could even be on top of the logo!  :+)</p>
<p>Ideally, I would like a logo that can be reduced, stacked, printed in color, black or white. The design restrictions for multicolor logos present too many problems. The man who designed our logo originally had the Viva! in a rainbow of colors &#8212; like your &#8220;After.&#8221; I liked it but quickly had to drop it for practical reasons.</p>
<p>We also used to have a byline that we often printed near our logo that read <em>Making music come to life.</em> Much like your <em>How to design cool stuff.</em> It was printed under a treble clef that had a leaf growing out of it. I don&#8217;t know if this helped explain the name or not. The treble clef was actually an S in some font turned around! See below.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-4194" title="MusicComeToLife" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/MusicComeToLife1.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="245" /></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">We used different words underneath: Discover it! Share it! Experience it! But soon just dropped that part.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Gayle</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Hi Gayle,</p>
<p>Thanks for the helpful feedback.</p>
<p>I should have been clearer. My interest at this early stage is only in the form factor, that is, what the typefaces alone convey. Color, size, usability &#8212; that will come later. Same for Alan&#8217;s name.</p>
<p>The final logo will be usable in all sizes, colors, resolutions, etc. In this case, the fonts have heavier-line versions for reproduction under more difficult conditions.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">I like the Viva font in #3.</span></p>
<p>That&#8217;s the one we did first. Do you like your original concept of a two-typeface logo? If so, our job will be to find the right two typefaces. Or are you hoping for a new direction?</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">We also used to have a byline that we often printed near our logo that read &#8220;Making music come to life.&#8221;</span></p>
<p>I like this image and the byline. It doesn&#8217;t explain your name, but it gives me a sense of what you&#8217;re about.</p>
<p>I understand your name. That&#8217;s because you told me up front that it means <em>living art.</em> You also explained the kind of music you play, and your husband&#8217;s role not only as founder and director but as something of a curator for the audience.</p>
<p>The impression I&#8217;ve formed, therefore, is of a warm, rich, light, comfortable, educational, music experience &#8212; very appealing. Your Web site conveys this.</p>
<p>You have two sets of goals. One is to have a logo. The other is to tell your story in its various ways. The logo can tell the story but doesn&#8217;t have to.</p>
<p>Tell me more.</p>
<p>John</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>[Dear readers: In trying to shortcut this process, I omitted several developmental steps and assumed, without thinking, that Gayle could read my mind, which, of course, she couldn't. Her first impression, therefore, was formed like yours -- she saw what's on the page, accurately, and responded to it. First impressions are strong. Her sense that this logotype has problems -- observed from experience, obviously -- taints it. Now, elements that should have been presented up front -- black &amp; white, robust type, etc. -- may be seen as "corrections" rather than integral parts of the image. That's an uphill road that neither you nor the client should have to climb. Beginner's mistake.]</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>John,</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">I should have been clearer. My interest at this early stage is only in the form factor; that is, what the typefaces alone convey. Color, size, usability &#8212; those will come later. Same for Alan&#8217;s name.</span></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Tell me more.</span></p>
<p>Well, I&#8217;ll try. It is hard for me not to look at something as a finished product, having never been through this process before! I got one response from a friend that the &#8220;Ars&#8221; font impressed her as Art Deco, which would not really work for us.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">Do you like your original concept of a two-typeface logo? If so, our job will be to find the right two typefaces. Or are you hoping for a new direction?</span></p>
<p>Your probing questions have caused us to think about what we really want our name to convey. The consensus is that the concept of &#8220;old and new&#8221; (types of music we perform) is not as important as conveying excellence, energy, intimacy, excitement, newness, variety, freshness and a sense of &#8220;classiness but not stuffiness.&#8221; So, to answer your question, two typefaces are not necessary.</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">The impression I&#8217;ve formed, therefore, is of a warm, rich, light, comfortable, educational music experience &#8212; very appealing.</span></p>
<p>These words are all very good at describing the Ars Viva experience! You have captured the essence of what we are about. I might only add that the performers are world-class musicians who perform at a very high artistic level. Ars Viva gives you great music and musicians who are accessible.</p>
<p>Gayle</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Hi Gayle,</p>
<p>Before I lose this iteration entirely, here&#8217;s a modified version. For now, we&#8217;re looking only at the signature. This one&#8217;s minus the color, it has a clearer V, and the hint of Art Deco is gone. The <em>Ars</em> typeface is classic Garamond, which was in use in the 18th and 19th centuries and probably advertised some of these original performances!<img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4263" title="ArsVivaAfter5b" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/ArsVivaAfter5b1.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="220" />Moving on, the logo below on the left is for an upcoming Before &amp; After project that has the same initials as Ars Viva. You&#8217;d need different colors, but does the form factor appeal to you? If so, can you picture it as the basis of a logo for the orchestra? The image below on the right is a pure ligature &#8212; a more organic image that takes advantage of the natural fit of your two letters.</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-4268" title="2AVs" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/2AVs.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="159" /></p>
<p>John</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Dear John,</p>
<p>I like it and can picture it, an offhand impression. My husband thinks it is harsh and angular and doesn&#8217;t represent Ars Viva. Alan says the one on the right is going in the right direction &#8212; &#8220;it has flow and looks musical.&#8221;</p>
<p>Gayle</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Hi Gayle,</p>
<p>&#8220;It has flow and looks musical.&#8221; That&#8217;s a clue.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s return to the beginning. I&#8217;ve attached our article &#8220;<a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/03/so-how-do-you-design-for-a-client/" target="_blank">Design from a creative brief.</a>&#8221; Please read it, especially pages 3 and 4, then with your husband and whoever else you&#8217;d like, do your best to describe your logo project and its goals, and get back to me.</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>John</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>While &#8220;Design from a creative brief&#8221; seems to start with an image (dragonfly) and go from there, I have tried to use its format here:</p>
<p>Audience: Mostly over 50. Affluent.<br />
Core target: Empty-nesters who have disposable time and income. Many of them played a musical instrument or sang when they were young.<br />
Secondary target: Parents of young children (we have a special Music for Life program that targets 4- to 11-year-olds and brings in 20 or so young families to each concert.)<br />
Tertiary targets: Corporations and foundations (especially important when applying for a grant)</p>
<p>Goals/Project Objectives:<br />
Attract interest and respect and a sense of uniqueness.<br />
Make the name more understandable (if possible) and readable.</p>
<p>Message:<br />
&#8220;Approachable Excellence.&#8221; This is the phrase we came up with to describe Ars Viva in a nutshell.</p>
<p>Other words:<br />
Professional, world-class, exciting, lively, fresh, new, elegant, classical, unique</p>
<p>We want to convey to the typical classical music concert-goer that we stand for the quality they expect from the Chicago Symphony; i.e., professionalism, trust, credibility.</p>
<p>However, we want to convey that their experience will be more personal, immediate, &#8220;up close,&#8221; and that the music and the musicians are approachable.   The conductor speaks to the audience from the stage (often with humorous comments) and makes the whole experience terribly enjoyable. The music is enjoyed more because it has been &#8220;unwrapped&#8221; for the audience before they hear it. But I digress . . .</p>
<p>We want to convey that our music performances are fresh and new &#8212; <em>living</em> and relevant (not to be confused with &#8220;contemporary&#8221; and &#8220;far out.&#8221; At Ars Viva, you might hear a symphony that you&#8217;ve heard all of your life, but it will feel like a new experience. There is a lot of energy and excitement at our performances.</p>
<p>Approaches:<br />
Ars Viva Symphony Orchestra<br />
Ars Viva Symphony<br />
AVSO<br />
AVS</p>
<p>All of these are okay. The only requirement is that the name must include: &#8220;Alan Heatherington, Music Director.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you work on a logo (separate from the name), you could use a musical symbol (baton, treble clef, bass clef, violin, etc. Other symbols would also be fine &#8212; a leaf or vine or tree or bird &#8212; something from nature that conveys the &#8220;living&#8221; aspect.</p>
<p>We would like the logo to be used in color and black &amp; white. As a practical matter, I would prefer only one or two colors. When I asked the board what color they thought AV represented, I got &#8220;blue&#8221; and &#8220;green&#8221; or &#8220;teal.&#8221; But this is open to any suggestion of yours.</p>
<p>The following is from an earlier email, and I liked it, so I have copied it again here:</p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">The consensus is that the concept of &#8220;old and new&#8221; (types of music we perform) is not as important as conveying excellence, energy, intimacy, excitement, newness, variety, freshness and a sense of &#8220;classiness but not stuffiness.&#8221; So, to answer your question, two typefaces are not necessary.</span></p>
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">The impression I&#8217;ve formed, therefore, is of a warm, rich, light, comfortable, educational, music experience &#8212; very appealing. </span></p>
<p>These words are all very good at describing the Ars Viva experience! You have captured the essence of what we are about. I might only add that the performers are world-class musicians who perform at a very high artistic level. Ars Viva gives you great music and musicians who are accessible.</p>
<p>Okay, that is what we have so far. If you need more information, please let me know.</p>
<p>Gayle</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>Dear readers: There you have it. Although there&#8217;s no substitute for meeting the principals face to face and (in this case) experiencing a live performance &#8212; we have a good creative brief. Gayle&#8217;s patient descriptions, plus her Web site, provide a clear look at the goals ahead. Feel free to comment on what you&#8217;ve just read. Feel free to submit your own creative brief questions. And feel free to try your  hand designing a new logotype for the symphony. Do this only if you&#8217;re serious. If you have questions or want clarifications, ask. Send your work directly to <a href="mailto:designtalk@bamagazine.com" target="_blank">me</a>. We&#8217;ll select several for critique.</p>
<p><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/06/how-to-quiz-your-client/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>28</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Tips for a Web designer&#8217;s first logo</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 19:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Before and after]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=3639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear readers, the following conversation between Ifat Glassman and me took place on the Design Critiques &#38; Reviews forum at AllGraphicDesign.com. Ifat is an artist (painting and drawing), and this is her first attempt at a logo. This logo is to serve as part of the Web site I am building: I thought it was [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear readers, the following conversation between Ifat Glassman and me took place on the Design Critiques &amp; Reviews forum at <a href="http://www.allgraphicdesign.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=26207&amp;p=124025" target="blank">AllGraphicDesign.com</a>. Ifat is an artist (painting and drawing), and this is her first attempt at a logo.</p>
<div class="entry-letters-blog" style="text-align: left;">
<p><img style="margin-bottom: 10px;" src="/Covermedia/blog/readerG_icon.gif" alt=" " /></p>
<p>This logo is to serve as part of the <a href="http://www.glassmanwebdesign.web44.net" target="blank">Web site</a> I am building:</p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-3689" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/glassmanbefore1/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3689" title="GlassmanBefore1" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/GlassmanBefore1.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="115" /></a></p>
<p>I thought it was pretty neat having the text in the middle, although some people I&#8217;ve asked don&#8217;t like it. So I thought I&#8217;d ask if you like it or not and why, and if you think the text in the middle is clear or not, and so on.</p>
<p>Please take under account the use of the logo in the Web page (I need something that fits in there).</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Ifat Glassman</p>
<div class="entry-letters-blog">
<p><img style="margin-bottom: 10px;" src="/Covermedia/blog/john_icon.gif" alt="" /></p>
<p>Hi, Ifat,</p>
<p>Pay attention in several things.</p>
<p>Your image is complex. Three things cause this. Upper- and lowercase lettering, outlines on the letters, and, especially, the term &#8220;Web Design&#8221; atop the name. The conflicting lines and spaces weaken the image.</p>
<p>The typeface is bland. Real glass is hard and flat, all straight lines and sharp corners, and transparent and reflective (usually at the same time). Your lettering is soft, round and puffy. You might try looking at a very light version of Neue Helvetica in all caps, set with letters almost touching. It would give you the incisive quality of glass. There are other possibilities.</p>
<p>The color is bland. Sky blue is for baby blankets. When I think of glass, skyscrapers come to mind &#8212; black, dark gray, gunmetal blue, aluminum, full of reflections and angles. Your experience may be different. You might look at some photos to see how glass behaves in nature.</p>
<p>Remove the outlines. What you want is simplicity and clarity. Fine type is high art, and the correct typeface in a solid color will not need adornment. To test this, visualize any famous logo. Now imagine an outline on it. It makes it weaker.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a good rule of thumb to make a logo that works in black &amp; white. It must work at small &#8212; even tiny &#8212; sizes and at low resolution. For an image to work under these conditions, it must have clear lines and shapes, simple forms, and solid colors, the building blocks of good design.</p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-3881" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/overlaydemo3-2/"><img class="alignright size-full wp-image-3881" title="OverlayDemo3" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/OverlayDemo32.jpg" alt="" width="240" height="256" /></a>Take &#8220;Web Design&#8221; off of your name. Overlays are rarely a good idea, especially in such similar colors. Overlaid, two typefaces acquire dozens of <em>undesigned</em> lines, shapes and spaces (right) &#8212; some from one word, some from the other, and some from the combination &#8212; that muffle and confuse both words. It might help to visualize &#8220;Web Design&#8221; stuck to your car windshield. It would blither your view of the road and everything else! Keep your title separate. Best place is beneath your name.</p>
<p>Finally, Glassman is a picturesque name, but your business isn&#8217;t about glass. The visual suggestion of glass can be interesting and memorable, but don&#8217;t overdo the connection or you may be mistaken for the window washer!</p>
<div class="entry-letters-blog">
<p><img style="margin-bottom: 10px;" src="/Covermedia/blog/readerG_icon.gif" alt="" /></p>
<p>Thank you for your elaborate reply. You have some very good ideas. I will try to apply them. I think letters without an outline would indeed be better. I will also look into how to make it appear glass-like. As of now, you&#8217;re right, it does look kind of puffy, haha. Didn&#8217;t think of it like that.</p>
<p>The comment about the logo having to work in smaller sizes is also important. I&#8217;m just starting, and with only two websites, it is hard to think so far ahead as to consider business cards.</p>
<div class="entry-letters-blog">
<p><img style="margin-bottom: 10px;" src="/Covermedia/blog/readerG_icon.gif" alt="" /></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve worked on the logo. I had several ideas, and I tried to keep it simple. I&#8217;ll show you what I&#8217;ve done.</p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-3707" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/glassmanbefore2/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3707" title="GlassmanBefore2" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/GlassmanBefore2.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="165" /></a></p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t look as good on a white background, because some of the shine effect is gone. Still, here are the full resolution images of what I&#8217;ve done:</p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-3708" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/glassmanbefore3/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3708" title="GlassmanBefore3" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/GlassmanBefore3.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="142" /></a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve used your great suggestions (you have a remarkable ability for formulating design elements). It wasn&#8217;t easy, but I think I did a decent job creating a glass effect. I&#8217;m uncertain how it works as a whole; maybe it is too much text.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also had an idea to use the S in a certain way, so I did this:</p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-3709" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/glassmanbefore4/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3709" title="GlassmanBefore4" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/GlassmanBefore4.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="174" /></a></p>
<p>However, I think it may be too visually packed, so I may have to go with the simpler version above.</p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<div class="entry-letters-blog">
<p><img style="margin-bottom: 10px;" src="/Covermedia/blog/john_icon.gif" alt="" /></p>
<p>I see that you&#8217;ve worked hard, but your new images are more complex than your original!</p>
<p>When I say complex, what I mean is the mixture of many different elements. In this case, you&#8217;ve drawn a reasonable facsimile of real glass, but you&#8217;ve then added other, unrelated things.</p>
<p>In the top example, I see a backdrop (that&#8217;s one thing), shadowed (that&#8217;s two things), bordered (three things) in an unfamiliar shape (four things), plus the words <em>web Design</em> in two different typefaces and sizes, set large enough to compete with the name Glassman. With all this different stuff, what happens is that the eye has nothing to lock onto; it gets pulled in several different directions, and the energy is dissipated.</p>
<p>In the bottom example, your swashy word <em>Design</em> with that long, looping s is a totally different thing from the uppercase glass letters; basically you have two design concepts in one piece, and they neutralize each other.</p>
<p>And remember that thing about depicting glass too literally? Your name may be Glassman, but your site isn&#8217;t about glass, yet your glass letters give the viewer the sense that it is.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re working too hard! Instead of drawing something, think first about the message you want to make.</p>
<p>I suggest that for your Web-design site, you&#8217;d want only a light association with the idea of glass, and you&#8217;d want to convey a sense of graphic design, meaning discipline, planning, clarity and so on. Try this:</p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-3682" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/glassmanafter1-2/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3682" title="GlassmanAfter1" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/GlassmanAfter11.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="108" /></a></p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be concerned if it looks plain; it&#8217;s here as an example. This is Neue (it means New) Helvetica Ultra Light. Pay attention to its incisive lines, its sharp edges and angles, and the clarity of its letterforms, qualities that are not only glass-like but convey a nearly architectural sense of design. The ultra light weight is fragile (like glass), while at the same time it is clearly a mechanical drawing, rendered with planning and discipline. Faint, blue-gray is the classic color of glass.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done hardly any work. I&#8217;ve typed your name, and we&#8217;ve let the type designer do the work.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what it looks like on a business card:</p>
<p><a rel="attachment wp-att-3674" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/glassmanafter2-3/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3674" title="GlassmanAfter2" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/GlassmanAfter22.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="277" /></a></p>
<p>This is what I mean by simple. One typeface, two sizes, no adornments, embellishments or special effects, one color. It&#8217;s inexpensive, easy to do, it looks designed, and it hints of glass.</p>
<p>This may not be your look &#8212; I realize it&#8217;s not the look you&#8217;ve established on your site &#8212; but its qualities are simplicity and clarity of expression. That&#8217;s what you want to shoot for.</p>
<div class="entry-letters-blog">
<p><img style="margin-bottom: 10px;" src="/Covermedia/blog/readerG_icon.gif" alt="" /></p>
<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>The background is not part of the logo; I just took a snapshot of the logo against my web page to show how it looks against a dark background.</p>
<p>So those elements (the half-half color with shadow on the side, etc.) are not part of the logo at all.</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback. I think you have a real talent for analyzing graphic elements and articulating it.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t like the business card appearance that much, but wow &#8212; thanks for taking the time to do it!</p>
<p>I think I will either stick with the first puffy logo simply because the new one does not look good on the web site, or change the whole curvy thing I have going on there to make the new logo fit in.</p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;d like to finish this website and move on to building new ones, so I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ll devote more time to a new logo.</p>
<p>Thanks again very much for your great feedback.</p>
<div class="entry-letters-blog">
<p><img style="margin-bottom: 10px;" src="/Covermedia/blog/john_icon.gif" alt="" /></p>
<p>Hi Ifat,</p>
<p>Although your background is not part of the logo, keep in mind that a logo is not an isolated object; it will always be seen in the context of other things, and their visual properties will either complement or clash. You want to retain control over the look and not allow unintended clashes to occur.</p>
<div class="entry-letters-blog">
<p><img style="margin-bottom: 10px;" src="/Covermedia/blog/readerG_icon.gif" alt="" /></p>
<p>The logo I have now actually applies most of the suggestions you gave me.</p>
<p>Your feedback later on was focused on all the elements that are not part of the logo (they are the background the web page gives the logo).</p>
<p>In any case, I used the logo to create a business card. This is how it looks against a dark background:<br />
<a rel="attachment wp-att-3890" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/glassmanbizcard-3/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3890" title="GlassmanbizCard" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/GlassmanbizCard2.jpg" alt="" width="280" height="188" /></a></p>
<p>Regarding the &#8220;glass in your face&#8221; &#8212; I don&#8217;t think I am under the danger of being mistaken for a glass manufacturer, although the thought did cross my mind at some point . . .&#8221;hello, I&#8217;m here to shine your windows.&#8221; But seriously, I don&#8217;t think this is a problem.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the feedback; it&#8217;s been very useful.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<div><span style="font-family: Verdana, 'Times New Roman', 'Bitstream Charter', Times, serif; font-size: small;"><br />
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/05/tips-for-a-web-designers-first-logo/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>54</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Verizon logo: One graphic too many</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 22:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=3486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[James Robert Watson posted on his site an interesting bit about the Verizon logo that I&#8217;d like to paraphrase for you. Basically, it&#8217;s that Verizon has a logo with one graphic too many. Verizon&#8217;s logo is made from familiar and rather ordinary ingredients &#8212; masculine black and red colors (think NASCAR), Helvetica Black type (lightly [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James Robert Watson posted on his <a href="http://www.jamesrobertwatson.com/verizon.html" target="_blank">site</a> an interesting bit about the <a href="http://www22.verizon.com/" target="_blank">Verizon</a> logo that I&#8217;d like to paraphrase for you. Basically, it&#8217;s that Verizon has a logo with one graphic too many.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a rel="attachment wp-att-3492" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/verizonlogo-2/"><img class="size-full wp-image-3492 aligncenter" title="VerizonLogo" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/VerizonLogo1.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="262" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Verizon&#8217;s logo is made from familiar and rather ordinary ingredients &#8212; masculine black and red colors (think NASCAR), Helvetica Black type (lightly modified), and a red z, which is the visual trick and vaguely resembles an electric spark. It also has a big, red check in a different line weight, with different angles, that looks like the corner of a box.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">But why does the check exist? It has no useful association; it establishes no tone or air, and it conveys no information. Worse, it&#8217;s not benign &#8212; it competes with the z; both are red and both are angled. Basically, you have two focal points.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">This becomes evident . . .<a rel="attachment wp-att-3518" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/verizonhatbefore/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3518" title="VerizonHatBefore" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/VerizonHatBefore.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="283" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">. . . when you remove the check . . .</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a rel="attachment wp-att-3519" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/verizonhatafter/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3519" title="VerizonHatAfter" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/VerizonHatAfter.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="283" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">The logo is simpler and stronger. A simpler logo has functional benefits, too. Because it&#8217;s triangular and mostly air, the red check occupies, and deadens, a lot of space. Without it, Verizon will fit many formats that are otherwise awkward to design, and it can be bigger. Here it is on a service van . . .</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a rel="attachment wp-att-3524" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/verizonvanbeforesm-2/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3524" title="VerizonVanBeforeSm" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/VerizonVanBeforeSm1.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="355" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a rel="attachment wp-att-3524" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/verizonvanbeforesm-2/"></a><a rel="attachment wp-att-3609" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/verizonvanaftersm-3/"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3609" title="VerizonVanAfterSm" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/VerizonVanAfterSm2.jpg" alt="" width="454" height="338" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a rel="attachment wp-att-3524" href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/verizonvanbeforesm-2/"></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">The thing to keep in mind as you design is that every element must contribute to your image, and if it doesn&#8217;t, don&#8217;t use it. The ideal image is the simple one in which every element &#8212; a line, a space, a color, a type choice &#8212; has a purpose that you can articulate. When you find that your design isn&#8217;t quite &#8220;working,&#8221; suspect two causes &#8212; either the goal hasn&#8217;t been clearly articulated, or the graphics contain a rogue element like Verizon&#8217;s check.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Can you name other examples?</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></p>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2010/04/one-graphic-too-many/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>78</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>The soul of the Empire</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/the-soul-of-the-empire/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/the-soul-of-the-empire/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Critique]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[logo]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=2586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I should start by saying that I love you readers! Bright, perceptive, articulate — you just rock! What a pleasure to have an audience of colleagues! Earlier this month, the day the 2014 Sochi Olympics logo was unveiled, a friend e-mailed me the Transformer Studio Olympic logo, saying that he liked the image and its [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2587" title="InterbrandBanner454" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/InterbrandBanner454.jpg" alt="InterbrandBanner454" width="454" height="212" /></p>
<p>I should start by saying that I love you readers! Bright, perceptive, articulate — you just rock! What a pleasure to have an audience of colleagues!</p>
<p>Earlier this month, the day the 2014 Sochi Olympics logo was unveiled, a friend e-mailed me the <a href="http://transformerstudio.ru/" target="_blank">Transformer Studio</a> Olympic logo, saying that he liked the image and its <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/" target="_blank">symbolism</a>, to which I couldn&#8217;t help but agree. It&#8217;s pretty, full of motion and dance and fire. It works in full color and one color, at all scales and in all media. It satisfies Transformer&#8217;s creative brief beautifully. I liked it, too.</p>
<p><a href="http://transformerstudio.ru/" target="_blank"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2608" title="SochiTransformer" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/SochiTransformer1.jpg" alt="SochiTransformer" width="454" height="415" /></a></p>
<p>At least, I liked it as a classroom assignment, where I&#8217;d give it an easy A. But the longer I looked, the less I liked. Out in the real world, to represent the real Russia in the real Olympics, the circle seemed vaguely . . . empty.</p>
<p>That sent me exploring, where I discovered that this was not the logo of the 2014 Sochi games at all, but merely a runner-up. The official logo is this one, from <a href="http://www.interbrand.com/" target="_blank">Interbrand</a> . . .</p>
<p><a href="http://sochi2014.com/39208" target="_blank"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2613" title="SochiMainLogo" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/SochiMainLogo1.jpg" alt="SochiMainLogo" width="454" height="284" /></a></p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2620" title="SOC_Board_ib" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/SOC_Board_ib2.jpg" alt="SOC_Board_ib" width="454" height="357" /></p>
<p>. . . which consists of the logotype and the ice crystals, too.</p>
<p>Both entries were designed in Moscow.</p>
<p>Having seen the firebird first (and perhaps <em>because</em> I&#8217;d seen it first), my response to the official logo was like some of yours — <em>meh</em>. But that lasted about 10 seconds, and then I started to like it. A lot. And the more I looked, the more I liked. Main reasons? There are three: It&#8217;s unmistakably Russia, it&#8217;s unmistakably winter, and it&#8217;s unmistakably today. In 40 years it will look old, as it should, because in 40 years it will live only in record and memory — &#8220;Hey, remember back . . . ?&#8221;</p>
<p>The firebird — let&#8217;s call it that — doesn&#8217;t do that. It feels generic, which means, literally, &#8220;stock.&#8221; It&#8217;s a logo with no name. Cover up Sochi, and you&#8217;re left without a single clue where these Olympics will be played. Cleveland? Rangoon? Winter? Summer? It&#8217;s clip art.</p>
<p>Beautiful, yes, and to be fair, it is not the first host-nation logo to look generic. The problem, however, is that, without a sense of place, the symbolism of its imagery — which is what makes the firebird work — doesn&#8217;t work. The feathers and circle dance have no meaning, if they&#8217;re perceived at all. As <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/#comment-2124" target="_blank">Orlando Angel</a> commented, &#8220;It could be a logo from any year, any place. It seems anonymous . . . lacking a relationship to something outside of itself.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s bad news for any logo, but we&#8217;re branding Russia, comrades, not Charmin. The Empire. And it&#8217;s not, as <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/#comment-2280" target="_blank">Erin</a> put it, the &#8220;fairy-tale, fantasy Russia,&#8221; for which the firebird may have worked. It&#8217;s Mother Russia. Peter the Great, Tolstoy, <a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RedSquare_SaintBasile_%28pixinn.net%29.jpg" target="_blank" rel="lightbox[2586]"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-2641" title="RedSquare" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/RedSquare3.jpg" alt="RedSquare" width="168" height="283" /></a>Nicholas and Alexandra, Red Square, Tchaikovsky, Solzhenitsyn. The Bear may be a menacing countenance to those who came of age in the 20th century, but you can&#8217;t design him away.</p>
<p>And you shouldn&#8217;t, because this is how Russia looks. Said <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/#comment-2226" target="_blank">Daria</a>, &#8220;I am a designer from Russia, and I can say that it’s quite in our tradition to use heavy brick, cut-out forms (remember Russian avant-garde of the 20th century beginning, our famous posters of the World War time, and socialist realism as the leading trend of design and art).&#8221;</p>
<p>Added <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/#comment-2230" target="_blank">Paulie</a>, &#8220;The [logo] for me says &#8216;Russia&#8217; — in re-emergence. A nation that respects strength above all. Churchill presented a ceremonial sword to Stalin to honor the &#8216;steel-hearted citizens of Stalingrad.&#8217; To me, the logo evokes that spirit. The typeface is reminiscent of the Russian revolutionary and wartime posters — a simple, strong, bold appeal to the Russian heart.&#8221;</p>
<p>As for the visual details, which to some readers made the logotype &#8220;unreadable&#8221; and &#8220;confusing,&#8221; what we have is an English-language logo that hints of Cyrillic lettering (not easy to do), which, to Western eyes, <em>is</em> unreadable. To my eye, the juxtaposition works as both complex and interesting. The &#8220;y&#8221; in 2014, as Erin pointed out, &#8220;looks like the letter for the &#8216;ch&#8217; sound in Russian, which reflects the &#8216;ch&#8217; sound in Sochi.&#8221; No one gets it at a glance, though. You have to look twice.</p>
<p>You can also see the hint of mountain-sea reflection that represents Sochi, which, the world will learn, is a sub-tropical resort town along the thin strip between the Caucasus mountains and the Black Sea.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.russiablog.org/2007/07/sochi_2014_the_complete_story.php" target="_blank"><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2643" title="SochiPool" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/SochiPool2.jpg" alt="SochiPool" width="454" height="342" /></a></p>
<p>The Olympic Games are an ancient event that every two years bring the world&#8217;s nations together in a place, in a time. They have a fine and enduring logo. The Sochi 2014 image does what a host-nation logo should do; it puts its stamp on the place and time. These are not the Winter Games of Lake Placid or Lillehammer or Nagano, these are the games of Sochi, and you won&#8217;t forget that. In a month, Vancouver will get its turn. Then London. After Sochi, Rio. And so on.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, too, that the block lettering will rarely be seen in isolation; don&#8217;t forget those ice crystals — &#8220;fresh and tangy,&#8221; said <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/#comment-2115" target="_blank">Brett</a> — which will be splashed, sprayed, scattered everywhere on venues big and small. You can already <a href="http://sochi2014.com/en/sochi-live/downloads/" target="_blank">download</a> some for yourself.</p>
<p>In the end, the Olympic Games are about the athletes, the competition, the pageantry, the tradition, and never about the logotype. And while, as some of you said, politics and money may have had a hand in making this selection, there is, for me at least, no doubt that they chose the better image.</p>
<p>_______________</p>
<p>For more:<br />
39 Olympic logos from 1924 to 2012. <a href="http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/03/39-olympic-logos-from-1924-to-2012/" target="_blank">webdesignerdepot.com</a><br />
Complete, immersive history of the modern Olympics. <a href="http://www.olympic.org/" target="_blank">olympic.org</a></p>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/the-soul-of-the-empire/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>21</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Does Sochi&#8217;s Olympic logo work?</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=2499</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The logo of the 2014 Olympic Winter Games in Sochi, Russia, was unveiled Tuesday at a press conference in Red Square by IOC president Jacques Rogge and other dignitaries. Said Rogge of the logo, which was developed by Interbrand, "It's very appealing. It's very creative, innovative. I think it will appeal especially to the young population."

We'll look at it in a few moments, but first I want to look at something else . . .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The logo of the 2014 Olympic Winter Games in <a href="http://bit.ly/GzuCI" target="_blank">Sochi</a>, Russia, was unveiled this week at a press conference in Red Square by IOC president Jacques Rogge and other dignitaries. Said Rogge of the logo, which was developed by <a href="http://www.interbrand.com" target="_blank">Interbrand</a>, &#8220;It&#8217;s very appealing. It&#8217;s very creative, innovative. I think it will appeal especially to the young population.&#8221;</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll look at it in a few moments, but first I want to look at something else — a competing entry from the Moscow design firm <a href="http://transformerstudio.ru/" target="_blank">Transformer Studio</a> that blends five visual concepts in a graceful image that works at every scale.</p>
<p>Transformer&#8217;s creative brief was brief . . .</p>
<p>&#8220;The goal was to scatter the myth about the image of Russia as a cold and unfriendly country. The symbolics should represent Russia and its genuine friendly spirit and hospitality.&#8221;</p>
<p>. . . and partly pictorial . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2507" title="TransformerBrief" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/TransformerBrief.jpg" alt="TransformerBrief" width="454" height="356" /></p>
<p>Said Transformer of the images above  . . .</p>
<p>&#8220;People are dancing in a cheerful circle dance, holding hands, laughing and singing. <em>Khorovod*</em> is a symbol of unity. The logotype consists of <em>palekh</em>*-stylized firebirds’ feathers in a round dance.</p>
<p>&#8220;Firebird is a Slavic fairytale character, symbol of fire, light and sun. Young men had to find firebirds’ feathers in order to complete the challenge.</p>
<p>&#8220;Since the beginning of the Olympics, champions have been given the highest honor to be awarded by a wreath. Five feathers form the laureate wreath, which symbolizes five continents as in the Olympic sign.&#8221;</p>
<p>*Khorovod: traditional Russian circle dance<br />
*Palekh: Russian national folk art</p>
<p>From these ideas and images, they designed the entry below . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2502" title="SochiTransformer" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/SochiTransformer.jpg" alt="SochiTransformer" width="454" height="415" /></p>
<p style="text-align: right;"><span style="color: #888888;">Typeface: <a href="http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/downloads/dalton_maag/co_headline_ot" target="_blank">Co Headline OT</a></span></p>
<p>. . . which clearly integrates all five elements: the circle dance, the flame, the feathers, the laurel wreath and the idea of unity, all colored to correspond to the Olympic rings.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s very functional. It works in one color (and in negative) . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2581" title="TransformerBlue" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/TransformerBlue2.jpg" alt="TransformerBlue" width="454" height="328" /></p>
<p>It works small . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2512" title="RedSkater" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/RedSkater.jpg" alt="RedSkater" width="454" height="302" /></p>
<p>. . . and it works big . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2513" title="Balloon" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Balloon.jpg" alt="Balloon" width="454" height="628" /></p>
<p>Note on the balloon the relationships of scale. The logo appears twice; the first is small and complete, and the second is so big that there&#8217;s room for only part of it. The contrast is fantastic — it&#8217;s a bold, arresting, almost overwhelming presentation that will connect worldwide even on small screens.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>So now back to Tuesday&#8217;s unveiling.</p>
<p>The logo chosen for these games is not that one but this one:</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2537" title="InterbrandSochi" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/InterbrandSochi1.jpg" alt="InterbrandSochi" width="454" height="174" /></p>
<p>There are several visual ideas embodied in this design, plus a functional one — it&#8217;s a Web address, which is a first.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.Sochi2014.ru" target="_self">Sochi2014.ru</a> site describes the logo as &#8220;a 21st-century brand for a digital generation,&#8221; designed to &#8220;actively encourage dialog between Russians, nations and winter sports fans, particularly youth.&#8221; Its (semi-)mirrored typography is intended to represent Sochi&#8217;s location on the Black Sea, &#8220;at the meeting point of the sea and the mountains.&#8221;</p>
<p>The second part of the brand is a blue and white snow crystal pattern . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2550" title="InterbrandJacket" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/InterbrandJacket1.jpg" alt="InterbrandJacket" width="454" height="414" /></p>
<p>This logo, too, is very functional. It works in any color and in negative . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2539" title="InterbrandSnowWater" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/InterbrandSnowWater.jpg" alt="InterbrandSnowWater" width="454" height="341" /></p>
<p>It works small . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2540" title="CarHelmet" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/CarHelmet.jpg" alt="CarHelmet" width="454" height="516" /></p>
<p>. . . it works big . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2542" title="SochiIceshow" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/SochiIceshow.jpg" alt="SochiIceshow" width="454" height="341" /></p>
<p>. . . and of course it works in all media . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2546" title="SochiPhone" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/SochiPhone.jpg" alt="SochiPhone" width="454" height="326" /></p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-2548" title="InterbrandSkier" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/InterbrandSkier1.jpg" alt="InterbrandSkier" width="454" height="126" /></p>
<p>So the question is, what do you think of these designs? I have a favorite and an analysis, but before I tell you mine, I want to hear from you.</p>
<p>Before you write, mull awhile. Don&#8217;t make a knee-jerk reaction.</p>
<p>What does each logo say to you?</p>
<p>What visual characteristics are &#8220;doing the talking&#8221;? Which do you like? Which do you not like? Can you say why?</p>
<p>Deconstruct. As designers, it&#8217;s our job to make this stuff, and we need to understand what we&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that a host-city logo represents a transitory event and, unlike the Olympic rings, does not need to endure.</p>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/12/does-sochis-olympic-logo-work/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>170</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>So how do you design for a client?</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/03/so-how-do-you-design-for-a-client/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/03/so-how-do-you-design-for-a-client/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 21:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1708</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your response to our last post, "Ode to the amateur logo," covered such a wide range of viewpoints — from "clients are clueless" to "my client changed my life" — that we figured it would be helpful to publish an article on the topic. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://www.bamagazine.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/Covermedia/0680-324.gif" alt="Design from a creative brief cover" /></p>
<p>Your response to our last post, &#8220;<a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/#comments" target="_blank">Ode to the amateur logo</a>,&#8221; covered such a wide range of viewpoints — from &#8220;clients are clueless&#8221; to &#8220;my client changed my life&#8221; — that we figured it would be helpful to publish an article on the topic. We used designer Karen Barranco&#8217;s brilliant logo for the Jennifer Diamond Cancer Foundation as our model and laid bare the process she used to create it.</p>
<p>How do you design for a client? (&#8220;client&#8221; being a broad term that includes committees, employers, whoever it is you&#8217;re designing for)</p>
<p>Rule #1: Listen.<br />
Rule #2: Embrace the client&#8217;s vision.<br />
Rule #3: Write it down. You and the client sign it.<br />
Rule #4: Design that. Don&#8217;t design something else.</p>
<p>That gets you started on the right foot. Then, of course, you do the work. There are many paths to a good design. All involve a process of evolution. Our article illustrates how Karen morphed a dragonfly into an angelic image of beauty, simplicity and dignity. Especially striking is that her logo not only befits a premium cancer foundation, it can belong <em>to only this one.</em></p>
<p>Key is the creative brief. The stuff you write down plays two major roles. One, it keeps the goals in front of everyone. You&#8217;re a designer; you know how easy it is to follow the form and lose sight of the function. Two, it gives you and the client a way to judge the results. This keeps the conversation at a high level. Everyone asks, &#8220;does the design convey confidence, trust and stability?&#8221; not, &#8220;why did you use a two-point line instead of a hairline?&#8221;</p>
<p>We expect the article to help you with every design from this point forward.</p>
<p>Once you&#8217;ve read it, I&#8217;d like to know if it left you with questions, and if there&#8217;s anything you can add to it. And you may want to visit <a href="http://specialmoderndesign.com/" target="_blank">Karen&#8217;s site</a>, where you can read more about her process.</p>
<p>Before &amp; After subscribers: &#8220;Design from a creative brief&#8221; is the current article of your subscription. Download it, read it, and get back to me.</p>
<p>Everyone else: <a href="http://www.bamagazine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=D1490680" target="_blank">Buy the article</a>, read it, and get back to me.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p><strong>About your projects . . .</strong></p>
<p>We&#8217;ve invited all of you to send us projects that you&#8217;d like to talk about. I should mention that while we read every submission — often two or three times — we have time to respond to very few, and fewer still become articles. If you have the time, write anyway, and please forgive the silence.</p>
<p>That said, if you write, be at least a bit specific. We get questions like, &#8220;Should I use two folds or three for my company brochure?&#8221; and, &#8220;My current logo works, but I think it could be better. What do you think?&#8221;</p>
<p>What we think is that we need more information.</p>
<p>Good place to start practicing those creative briefs.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>For more on creative-brief-based design, we recommend the following issues, which are available only in print:</p>
<p><a title="Before &amp; After issue 30" href="http://www.bamagazine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=P1300000" target="blank"><img src="http://www.bamagazine.com/v/vspfiles/photos/P1300000-0.jpg" alt="" /></a><a title="Before &amp; After issue 38" href="http://www.bamagazine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=P1380000" target="blank"><img src="http://www.bamagazine.com/v/vspfiles/photos/P1380000-0.jpg" alt="" /></a></p>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/03/so-how-do-you-design-for-a-client/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>11</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Ode to the amateur logo</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/</link>
		<comments>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John McWade</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Logo design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Branding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[logo]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The client knows something you don't . . .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lori Starr writes . . .</p>
<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>The hardest part about design is the client.<br />
Have you ever said that?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t believe their taste.<br />
I was asked to design a logo for a riding therapy for children.<br />
I decided to do something clean, tasteful and uncluttered.</p>
<p>Do people understand that the logo does <em>not</em> have to tell the entire story?<br />
Look at the very bottom of this e-mail. I mean, she has the world, a horse, all those kids <em>and </em>a wheelchair!</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t get it. Obviously, I didn&#8217;t finish the job, but how do you convince people they don&#8217;t have to have every thought element in the logo?</p>
<p>Here is her initial sketch . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-1691" title="donnascansm" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/donnascansm1.jpg" alt="donnascansm" width="554" /><br />
Here is my design . . .<br />
<img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-1677" title="logo1sm" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/logo1sm1.jpg" alt="logo1sm" width="426" /><br />
. . . and my accompanying notes to her . . .</p>
<p><em>This is a very clean design that is very flexible because there are few lines involved. Think of all the applications you will be placing your logo on. Do you want to embroider it on a T-shirt or a hat (which would be good for riding in the sun)? Do you want to place it on a banner, signs, printed pieces, buttons, water bottles, pens etc.?</em></p>
<p>Here is an alternative that I offered . . .</p>
<p><img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-1678" title="logo1altsm" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/logo1altsm2.jpg" alt="logo1altsm" width="423" /></p>
<p>. . . and my notes . . .</p>
<p><em>Alternate concept with the globe behind it. This one is a lot more intricate, with the lines of the globe. Be aware of how it will transfer to any applications you may want to place it on. If you&#8217;re using it only on paper or printed pieces, it will not be a concern. I just want to mention the other options in case you want to apply the logo to them.</em></p>
<p>And here&#8217;s what she ended up with!!<br />
<img class="alignnone size-full wp-image-1675" title="logo" src="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/logo3.jpg" alt="logo" width="199" /></p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Lori, I&#8217;d say she didn&#8217;t actually want a logo. She wanted a little story.</p>
<p>John</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>How do you help the client see it?</p>
<p>It seems that so many of them want it all too literal.</p>
<p>Trying to convince them that all of those elements don&#8217;t have to be in their logo is like beating your head against the wall.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t feel good creating the logo she ended up with. I don&#8217;t even think I could do it, because it just isn&#8217;t right.</p>
<p>Lori</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>First, you have to be sure that your solution is better. In this case, your logo is &#8220;cleaner,&#8221; but hers is more inviting. Her horse has eyes and an expression that I can connect with, the wheelchair arouses compassion, and the children running toward the horse, along with the headlines, tells me unmistakably what this place is about. If I were flipping through the Yellow Pages and saw these two logos side by side, I&#8217;d phone hers.</p>
<p>Her image feels warm, nurturing, enfolding, exactly the things that I&#8217;d want in therapy. Yours feels cool, even cold, and somewhat distant. The point of your image appears to be the horse out there in the wind. The point of hers appears to be children being healed — and thrilled.</p>
<p>So this is a case where story trumps graphics.</p>
<p>A brilliant logo will capture the story in a &#8220;simple, clean&#8221; mark, but that is extremely difficult to do.</p>
<p>John</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<div>
<p>I just think hers has too many elements in it, and I quite frankly don&#8217;t like it.</p>
<p>I see your points, but it looks <em>very</em> unprofessional to me.</p>
<p>Thanks for the thoughts.</p>
<p>Lori</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<div>
<p>It looks unprofessional because it <em>is</em> unprofessional. She&#8217;s an amateur. But she knows her story. The professional&#8217;s job would be to express her story in a &#8220;professional&#8221; way, which didn&#8217;t happen here.</p>
<p>The word amateur, by the way, originated as the Latin word &#8220;amare,&#8221; which means &#8220;to love.&#8221;</p>
<p>John</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<div>
<p>I like getting your feedback.</p>
<p>It shows me that I need to pay more attention to what the client is saying and what &#8220;their&#8221; needs/intentions are rather than what I am thinking their needs should be.</p>
<p>And I guess the moral of the story is to meet in the middle.</p>
<p>I <em>do</em> get the fact that mine was more corporate looking as opposed to the warm and fuzzy feel.</p>
<p>This is very insightful.</p>
<p>I will remember this the next time I work with a client.</p>
<p>Thank you for taking your time to write about it.</p>
<p>Lori</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p>&copy;2010 <a href="http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk">Before &amp; After | Design Talk</a>. All Rights Reserved.</p>.]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>122</slash:comments>
		</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
