Great way to support someone who is taking their first steps in the field! And may I commend you that you can tell so much about my potential by one work, which is my first!

Luckily, I do rely primarily on my own judgment, and I know I do have the ability to do great designs.

kyitumon, why do you assume that I mindlessly obeyed John’s suggestions? That is insulting. I am not one who is so insecure as to take every advice I am given, fearful of what others say. I take only what I understand and think is right.

I thought he was right on, and that is why I made the changes to my logo.

He was right — the initial font along with the outline made the font look puffy. Capitalized letters with a straight-lines font would have been perfect for glass — and that’s why I used that advice.

I do value simplicity, and I admit that this logo is not simple. It can use more work (or perhaps an entirely different idea, which I got today reading an article on logos somebody posted here).

However, it takes time to identify all the wrong elements — and I need the time to see what is wrong myself. It being my own website and logo, my main focus was on creating something that I like (and that looks polished). So, no, I am not going to take someone else’s design. I only take their advice to the extent I think I can use it to improve on what I want to create.

If some of you think this means disrespect to the critique John gave me, well tough.

I don’t think I’ll be back to read reviews — I don’t need to hear that I lack taste, talent or personality.

Thanks again, John, for the time and effort — like I said, you did provide great help.

I do think, like I said to you in that discussion, that you have a remarkable ability to communicate concepts of visual appearance. In fact, I was so curious that I traced you back to this website and even subscribed.

OK, I’ve said what I had to say. I’ll be leaving now.

The purpose behind these suggestions is what is important.

That said:

1. Why did John suggest all caps? To give the logo simplicity. Using all caps is not the point; the point is to simplify the logo. How the logo gets simplified is another matter entirely; all caps are but one way of going about it. (I think what went wrong in your second rendition is that you added more visual elements, typographically — “GLASSMAN” is all caps, “web” is all lowercase, and “Design” is Title case and italic. Too many visuals!)

2. Again, removing the outline is not the point — the point is to simplify the logo. Logos need to be simple and rememberable (hello, golden arches). I think what went wrong in your second rendition was the text was squished. Squishing a font adds complexity and is therefor harder to absorb visually.)

3. Creating a hard-glass texture — the point behind this was to add a connection between your logo in written form, and your logo visually. If you can do that simply by changing the typeface, the better! The KISS principle is what makes design fundamentally different from art: keep it (design) simple, silly!

Try to think of it this way: graphic design is like a house. Your website is one room of that house. Your logo is another room of that house, but if you try to do too many things in that one room, and try to pile too much stuff into it, it no longer fulfills its purpose — your bedroom can’t also be a bathroom and an office and a workout room.

Does that make sense to anyone?

As a service provider, it will be your most sacred responsibility to your clients to listen to them. And though you listened to John, you did not hear what he was saying. Simply, literally applying their advice or suggestions is not listening. Learn to hear what they are trying to tell you rather than their exact words, then apply your own educated interpretation.

If your clients had the ability to tell you exactly what they want, they could do it themselves.

It’s when I see “design” like this that I get on the “everyone-needs-to-be-formally-educated” bandwagon — but Ifat seems more focused on art rather than design — a shame, when said person is trying to get into website design.

I also agree with Carmel — “Design is about communication, not about making each element a work of art.” Amen, brother. Amen.

You can teach what I refer to as the “rules of typography” . . . limit yourself to two fonts, don’t mix alignments, etc. These rules are not rules because someone decided it should be this way; they are rules because they are tried and true. Some students, no matter what, are resistant. They may follow some of the rules, if the issue is forced. Alas, I have a senior now who, I know, once she graduates, will revert to all of her old habits of clutter, type over photographs (rendering the type unreadable), too many fonts, too many distractions, and overall lack of hierarchy.

If I were hiring a web designer, I’d hire the one with the Helvetica Neue logo. Clean, elegant, information clearly communicated.

I work with someone who calls herself a “graphic designer who would rather be painting.” Self-taught in both. She should be painting, because she does that well, but she can’t design her way out of a paper bag. I’ve given up helping, because I get only resentment and resistance in return.