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	<title>Comments on: Ode to the amateur logo</title>
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	<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/</link>
	<description>Before &#38; After&#039;s creative director John McWade&#039;s conversations with subscribers</description>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-13/#comment-2984</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 14:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-2984</guid>
		<description>And here I was thinking that I was the only designer who went through this wretched process. I&#039;ve designed so many logos that I thought were out of this world, only to have clients say, &quot;I like this font I use in Word -- can you use this? Oh, and there was a clip art that is incredible! Can you incorporate that, too?&quot;  UGH!

But, as mentioned before, their money spends the same no matter what the design looks like. So I&#039;ve had to learn to try my best to be in their shoes and understand what it is they are trying to say, communicate and do. In the end, it&#039;s their company and, therefore, their choice.  

I&#039;m an artist, a creative and a perfectionist, so I&#039;ve realized that what I like is just that -- what I like.

My 2¢.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here I was thinking that I was the only designer who went through this wretched process. I&#8217;ve designed so many logos that I thought were out of this world, only to have clients say, &#8220;I like this font I use in Word &#8212; can you use this? Oh, and there was a clip art that is incredible! Can you incorporate that, too?&#8221;  UGH!</p>
<p>But, as mentioned before, their money spends the same no matter what the design looks like. So I&#8217;ve had to learn to try my best to be in their shoes and understand what it is they are trying to say, communicate and do. In the end, it&#8217;s their company and, therefore, their choice.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m an artist, a creative and a perfectionist, so I&#8217;ve realized that what I like is just that &#8212; what I like.</p>
<p>My 2¢.</p>
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		<title>By: Kam</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-13/#comment-2717</link>
		<dc:creator>Kam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Apr 2010 14:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-2717</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a professional designer. As a member of the general public, the two blue logo designs are quite lovely, and make me certain they represent a horse rescue. Maybe a Mustang rescue in particular, given that the horse is running so freely in apparently open land.

Nothing in those pretty logos is even slightly tied to the mission of the client herself, nor even evocative of her activities.

Designers may feel they know best and all should follow their lead, but after reading these posts, it almost seems that they may not &quot;get&quot; how regular people make connections. Surely that can&#039;t be true!

I know that this is an old post, but I was so struck by the reactions to it that I wanted to add an opinion from a layperson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a professional designer. As a member of the general public, the two blue logo designs are quite lovely, and make me certain they represent a horse rescue. Maybe a Mustang rescue in particular, given that the horse is running so freely in apparently open land.</p>
<p>Nothing in those pretty logos is even slightly tied to the mission of the client herself, nor even evocative of her activities.</p>
<p>Designers may feel they know best and all should follow their lead, but after reading these posts, it almost seems that they may not &#8220;get&#8221; how regular people make connections. Surely that can&#8217;t be true!</p>
<p>I know that this is an old post, but I was so struck by the reactions to it that I wanted to add an opinion from a layperson.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-12/#comment-2518</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-2518</guid>
		<description>Came across this article when looking for &quot;before and after&quot; pictures of businesses that &lt;em&gt;started&lt;/em&gt; with amateur logos and hired a professional designer to create a new look. Ended up here, which was the opposite, but I just &lt;em&gt;had&lt;/em&gt; to put my two cents in. 

I feel that both of these logos miss the mark for different reasons. I can completely and totally understand the idea that the client wants the logo to tell the complete and entire story -- that&#039;s what she did. Well, your logo hardly tells the story, unfortunately. I would definitely be willing to bet that you &lt;em&gt;might&lt;/em&gt; have come to a compromise that still had a professional look but portrayed more of what she wanted.

See, the use of color psychology could have been used &lt;em&gt;on her.&lt;/em&gt; She didn&#039;t know why, but your logo wasn&#039;t giving her the warm and fuzzy feeling she knew she wanted. If you had worked the colors and fonts to give that feeling (and I know that they can), you might have had a stronger concept for her and thus had a better compromise. 

Also, to those who say that when you look in the Yellow Pages you won&#039;t know what the other one is for! &lt;em&gt;Are you kidding?!&lt;/em&gt; No logo tells the whole story -- that&#039;s why people take out ads and actually put content in those ads to tell the whole story. You can easily take a horse logo and make a beautifully designed ad that shows the horses with kids in wheelchairs.

Oh, and the font choice is just the kicker in all of that!

Obviously this is old . . . but really just wanted to put my little words in because I am on a logo-writing frenzy right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Came across this article when looking for &#8220;before and after&#8221; pictures of businesses that <em>started</em> with amateur logos and hired a professional designer to create a new look. Ended up here, which was the opposite, but I just <em>had</em> to put my two cents in. </p>
<p>I feel that both of these logos miss the mark for different reasons. I can completely and totally understand the idea that the client wants the logo to tell the complete and entire story &#8212; that&#8217;s what she did. Well, your logo hardly tells the story, unfortunately. I would definitely be willing to bet that you <em>might</em> have come to a compromise that still had a professional look but portrayed more of what she wanted.</p>
<p>See, the use of color psychology could have been used <em>on her.</em> She didn&#8217;t know why, but your logo wasn&#8217;t giving her the warm and fuzzy feeling she knew she wanted. If you had worked the colors and fonts to give that feeling (and I know that they can), you might have had a stronger concept for her and thus had a better compromise. </p>
<p>Also, to those who say that when you look in the Yellow Pages you won&#8217;t know what the other one is for! <em>Are you kidding?!</em> No logo tells the whole story &#8212; that&#8217;s why people take out ads and actually put content in those ads to tell the whole story. You can easily take a horse logo and make a beautifully designed ad that shows the horses with kids in wheelchairs.</p>
<p>Oh, and the font choice is just the kicker in all of that!</p>
<p>Obviously this is old . . . but really just wanted to put my little words in because I am on a logo-writing frenzy right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Wells</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-12/#comment-2438</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 21:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-2438</guid>
		<description>Professional isn&#039;t always better. I do like Lori&#039;s design better, but that&#039;s only from a design perspective. If I had a child in a wheelchair, I&#039;d much rather take that child to a personal mom-and-pop operation where they hand-drew their own &quot;logo&quot; than to some take-a-number corporate service. I think that&#039;s the perspective that needs to be considered. It&#039;s not about a pretty design, it&#039;s about impressions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professional isn&#8217;t always better. I do like Lori&#8217;s design better, but that&#8217;s only from a design perspective. If I had a child in a wheelchair, I&#8217;d much rather take that child to a personal mom-and-pop operation where they hand-drew their own &#8220;logo&#8221; than to some take-a-number corporate service. I think that&#8217;s the perspective that needs to be considered. It&#8217;s not about a pretty design, it&#8217;s about impressions.</p>
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		<title>By: Than Saffel</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-12/#comment-2095</link>
		<dc:creator>Than Saffel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-2095</guid>
		<description>I like the client&#039;s original sketch a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the client&#8217;s original sketch a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Fraser</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-12/#comment-2072</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-2072</guid>
		<description>You have a responsibility to design a professional logo. It is better to lose a client than to lose your integrity as professional. Really, the brand comes first and the client second. You aren&#039;t doing them a favour by creating an unprofessional brandmark, and you aren&#039;t doing yourself a favour by lowering your standards.  What a funny world we would live in if the patients hired the doctors, then told them how to treat them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have a responsibility to design a professional logo. It is better to lose a client than to lose your integrity as professional. Really, the brand comes first and the client second. You aren&#8217;t doing them a favour by creating an unprofessional brandmark, and you aren&#8217;t doing yourself a favour by lowering your standards.  What a funny world we would live in if the patients hired the doctors, then told them how to treat them.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-12/#comment-1958</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-1958</guid>
		<description>I understand your frustration, but even your original logo isn&#039;t professional when you consider how much detail you have in the hair and grass. That isn&#039;t simple. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand your frustration, but even your original logo isn&#8217;t professional when you consider how much detail you have in the hair and grass. That isn&#8217;t simple.</p>
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		<title>By: R</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-12/#comment-1855</link>
		<dc:creator>R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-1855</guid>
		<description>You should have gone with a sans-serif font and some warmer colors instead of blue.

I share your same pain with clients wanting ugly stuff. They need to be educated with what is bad and what is good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should have gone with a sans-serif font and some warmer colors instead of blue.</p>
<p>I share your same pain with clients wanting ugly stuff. They need to be educated with what is bad and what is good.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kleist</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-12/#comment-1846</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kleist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-1846</guid>
		<description>What a great pool of thought! I suppose experience is the only way to really glean the ability one must in order to deal with the endless range of clients!

As designers we are idealists. Maintaining the tender balance between giving our clients what they want and giving them what they need is tough to do. Nothing drives me more batty than to have a client &#039;hold my hand&#039; and show me how to design. I have told clients they are hiring a very expensive production artist if that&#039;s what they want to do — but yes, it all pays the same. I think it comes down to pride on our part. 

Bottom line — I believe it&#039;s our job to LISTEN more than anything. Giving a client a value statement that clarifies that you thoroughly understand their design objectives can really help prior to any design. If I can get examples of what they like, it helps too. In the meantime, we artists need to develop thicker skin!  WrK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great pool of thought! I suppose experience is the only way to really glean the ability one must in order to deal with the endless range of clients!</p>
<p>As designers we are idealists. Maintaining the tender balance between giving our clients what they want and giving them what they need is tough to do. Nothing drives me more batty than to have a client &#8216;hold my hand&#8217; and show me how to design. I have told clients they are hiring a very expensive production artist if that&#8217;s what they want to do — but yes, it all pays the same. I think it comes down to pride on our part. </p>
<p>Bottom line — I believe it&#8217;s our job to LISTEN more than anything. Giving a client a value statement that clarifies that you thoroughly understand their design objectives can really help prior to any design. If I can get examples of what they like, it helps too. In the meantime, we artists need to develop thicker skin!  WrK</p>
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		<title>By: Davina Brewer</title>
		<link>http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/2009/02/ode-to-the-amateur-logo/comment-page-12/#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator>Davina Brewer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mcwade.com/DesignTalk/?p=1644#comment-1845</guid>
		<description>I can see the battle between personable and professional style, and clients&#039; needs versus the wants of the designer.  My thoughts:

While a client may have set ideas, as a designer it is up to me to try and shake them out of their comfort zone. I try to show them options that are on message, competitive, that will stand the test of time and be serviceable across all media.

It&#039;s a balancing act.  If the designed logo was too corporate, I think there was a way to soften it to the tone of the final product without it seeming amateur or unprofessional.  Like some of the other suggestions,  I think there could have been a little give and take, adding of children to the design, which the client seems to clearly have wanted.  Perhaps enlarge the globe and a silhouette of children instead of the wire frame; possibly rounder, more playful fonts.  

Bottom line:  I am working for the client, not my portfolio, so clients get what they want (and it sometimes does not make the portfolio).  FWIW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see the battle between personable and professional style, and clients&#8217; needs versus the wants of the designer.  My thoughts:</p>
<p>While a client may have set ideas, as a designer it is up to me to try and shake them out of their comfort zone. I try to show them options that are on message, competitive, that will stand the test of time and be serviceable across all media.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a balancing act.  If the designed logo was too corporate, I think there was a way to soften it to the tone of the final product without it seeming amateur or unprofessional.  Like some of the other suggestions,  I think there could have been a little give and take, adding of children to the design, which the client seems to clearly have wanted.  Perhaps enlarge the globe and a silhouette of children instead of the wire frame; possibly rounder, more playful fonts.  </p>
<p>Bottom line:  I am working for the client, not my portfolio, so clients get what they want (and it sometimes does not make the portfolio).  FWIW.</p>
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